Gay: fetuses and beyond
Where exactly is the Bible’s condemnation of homosexuality?
If science develops a test to determine sexual orientation in the womb, will you fight to save them from abortions?
3/22/2005
26 Comments »
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
Leave a comment
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Greetings,
Lacking an unbiased news agency these years I turn to the net for many opinions and news articles. Reading my news this way, I have often enjoyed Supak and was linked to here from there.
Though I am not a Christian I was educated as such (as good a reason to not be Christian, or religious at all, that one can have). I can answer some of the questions listed for you as most Christians don’t know the answers themselves without asking or researching.
I would like to point out that most of the religious idealists are so fervent in their denial of anything contrary to their faith that they would not answer you unless it was to inform you of your shortcomings or to promote their ideals. Fine debate or topic of discussion is not relevant to these people (and most peoples of faith who are at all serious about it) as any fact that PROVES them wrong would be disregarded as false. They have it set in their minds by ignorance, or instilled with fear from birth in most cases. So, if any contradictory facts are exposed, Christians ignore them, as if they were not proposed, they dismiss them as heresy or stupidity.
There is no proof for religion, there is proof for the many religious declarations. Therefore, religion is based upon faith and faith alone, even the bible is filled with hypocrisy, and the first person who denies it will further the hypocritical nature of the matter. The Christian & religious peoples will never be in the discussion or debate to learn something, they will never ask a question because they ‘want to know’ but rather because they ‘want to prove you do not’. Even is they did want to know, they can not accept the answer if it contradicts their faith, unless they renounce their faith. They have no ability to learn from debate; they must disdain your effort to question their faith in any way or convince you that you are wrong and need their faith in your life as well. Get on our side or you are evil and will go to hell is the basic resolution to the Christian or religious debate from their side.
For this sad reason, Christianity as most other world religions will have to be silently put to death as fairy tales & mythology just like the thousands of gods that came before theirs, with time. The ignorant & unwilling to learn must pass away and the sensible must not be oppressed but allowed to grow wise & logical. Then and only then can the ideals of lunacy enforced by fear & greed be toppled forever. Hopefully the next time mankind defeats the gods they will not trade up for yet another one.
That all said here are some answers to your questions.
Leviticus 18:22 I believe is the first place in the bible that it states a discrimination against homosexuals. I use the word discrimination to better describe exactly what it is. Leviticus itself is a great source for the mass abuse, murder, rape, slavery, torture & more that God condones as well as numerous decrees’ Christians conveniently ignore when selecting which laws they wish to enforce upon others or base their beliefs upon.
Later, in Leviticus 20:13 it lays down punishment (as it does through most of chapter 20) as death for homosexuality and this is also another verse often used as the proof homosexuality is a sin. Also in this chapter it lays down a death sentence for quite a few other indiscretions.
The problem is this one great contradiction. If we follow the belief that Leviticus is the word of God that we must obey why then does the modern Christian movement not attempt to enforce the death penalty upon the gay population? Why do they not allow for us to buy slaves or sell our children into slavery as it says in Exodus 21:7 & Leviticus 25:44? The common reply from Christians is that the Old Testament has been re-written or replaced by the New Testament. Yet this New Testament quotes Christ as saying simply “Love your fellow man”, he also rescues a prostitute from being stoned to death as Leviticus declares a law of God. If Christ can save the prostitute and suggest that no one is without sin, then how can Christians today who admit we are ALL sinners, declare any of these lies as law let alone throw a stone?
Your second question is a nice out of the box idea. The answer for most thinking Christians will be yes. They will fight to save the life of any fetus as no amount of scientific proof will convince them that the sexual orientation of the person is not able to change. Christians mostly think homosexuality is a choice & perversion much as alcoholism & other weakness disorders.
Comment by Jay — 3/26/2005 @ 5:06 pm
Billy Graham ( a christian), in an interview with Hugh Downs, on the 20/20 program, Hugh looked directly at Billy and said, “If you had a homosexual child, would you love him?” Billy didn’t miss a beat. He replied with sincerity and gentleness, “Why, I would love that one even more.”
Comment by Camden — 3/29/2005 @ 7:09 pm
Here’s a condemnation from the New Testament for ya: Romans 1:26-27
“For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their woman exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.”
There’s no such thing as a homosexual fetus, so your second question is just silly. Hypothetically, though, if science or Providence or anything else ever determined a way to predict future behavior, then yes, even then I would oppose abortion.
I don’t believe gay adults should be put to death, either! Ours is a religion of forgiveness, after all.
Comment by Elvis — 3/31/2005 @ 1:18 pm
Elvis has not left the building!
Hey, you’re not quoting the grade-A-number-one Shakespeare translation of the Bible done for King James, now is it?
“..receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.”
Is that your little code for AIDs?
My version says “…receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.” Are you afraid of other interpretations? Is that why you rephrase it to be harsher, using “due penalty” for recompense.
Funny, I just looked up recompense to make sure, and it doesn’t say anything about due penalty. It says compensation, payment, and amends. Other Christians have argued the meaning of that verse and come up with the opposite conclusion you have. So even within your own religion there is not agreement. But, say, fine, what if your whole religion says it’s a sin? Even if every single Christian agreed it was a sin, what right do you have to force your religious beliefs on someone, say, to stop gay marriage? What if that persons religious beliefs said love was a good thing. Who the hell are you to tell them they can’t have a wedding, a contract, a marriage, and all of the secular things that come with that?
You wouldn’t like it very much if I tried to force you to follow Wiccan, Buddhist, or Hindu teachings? What if I said only Muslim marriages would be allowed?
Finally, what about Leviticus 20:13: If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Sounds like Gay adults should be put to death to me…. Right after I sell my daughter into slavery and stop cutting my sideburns.
Comment by supak.com — 4/3/2005 @ 9:58 pm
Wow, you are all over the place. The questions were about where the Bible condemns homosexuality and if I would want to abort a baby if I knew as an adult it would commit homosexual acts. Nothing about marriage or otherwise “forcing my religious beliefs on them.” Nothing about any judgements or wishing my beliefs were the foundation for global law. Certainly nothing about wishing people would get AIDS. Perhaps I need to start my own website, questions-for-commies.com “seeking to understand why the Left liberally puts words in the mouths of others.” I hope you will stop by.
In fact I don’t have a problem with gay marriage. It’s a free will issue. People need to be allowed to sin, and yes just about every religion views homosexuality as a sin- even lefty religions like Buddhism.
Further, in response to your disgusting insinuation that I cheer for the AIDS virus… Punishment is not mine to administer, but God’s. In the words of Jesus Christ, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” That ain’t me, friend. What you do in your bedroom (or anywhere else) is between you and the Lord, whether you recognize hom or not.
Comment by Elvis — 4/6/2005 @ 11:03 am
It’s good to hear that unlike this Hero president of the right who says god speaks through him, you don’t want to force your religion down the throat of others who don’t believe as you do.
I think you’re wrong about every religion viewing homosexuality as a sin. If that were true, then why would these religions allow gay marriage? Wouldn’t that be against God’s law?
While you’ll have to forgive me for putting words in your mouth, since you seem to represent the one and only true relgion that has the corner on the forgiveness market, but isn’t it ironic that you labeled me a commie without knowing anything about me? Typical righy-wing labeling tactic, like if I called you a fascitst pig.
But, judging from your very tolerant positions, I would guess you’re not a Bush voter. You certainly disagree with him on some key issues. I wonder if you, like him, believe that only Christians will get into heaven? I wonder if you, like him, believe in the literally interpretation of the Rapture? I wonder if you, like him, ignore the mountain of Science known as evolution and say the world was litterally created in 7 days 5000 years ago?
Finally, like many Christians I know, and certainly most Republicans I know (although I don’t know that you do vote with God’s Own Party), you are a hypocrite. You lash out at me for putting words in your mouth, which I plainly did not. Go back and read my post. I asked you if the quote from the King James version of the Bible, as I found it, was saying that God would punish gay people for being gay. I said, is that your little code for AIDs? After all, Ronny Raygun and his right wing Christian fanatics certainly seemed to suggest that. Many right wing Christians continue to insinuate that AIDs is God’s punishment for being Gay or doing drugs.
BUT I DID NOT SAY that you were wishing AIDs on people. I only asked if that’s what you thought of that passage from Romans. You cleverly avoided the points, while putting words in my mouth, which you then accused me of doing.
Comment by supak.com — 4/6/2005 @ 3:38 pm
What religions allow gay marriage? Aside from some fringe pseudo-religions like Unitarians I can’t think of any. I don’t even know if Unitarians allow it. There’s a difference between acknowledging gay people and giving them your blessing. Marriage is a spiritual contract, and gay marriage is certainly against God’s law. Civil unions, both hetero- and homosexual are legal agreements and I have no problems with their existence. So I consider my own marriage to be a civil union as well.
I was trying to be ironic by labelling you a commie, since you ascribed every reactionary caricature of conservatism to me based on the answers of two questions unrelated to any of the topics you then brought up. I don’t know if you’re a commie, socialist, Bill Clinton, anarchist, libertarian, etc. But you likewise don’t know if I’m a Southern Baptist or Greek Orthodox or Methodist. But you have no problem pushing me into your stereotype of what a Christian is. Guess what? 90% of Americans are Christians, and I think you’ll agree that there’s a bit of diversity represented in that group.
You’re right about one thing, though. I disagree with Bush quite a bit, mostly around economic issues like Social Security and tax cuts. But yes, I do believe that only those that accept Christ as the savior of man go to heaven, along with just about every other Christian, seeing as how is a central tenet of our faith and all. The rapture is definitely NOT a literal reading of the Bible. There’s no mention of it at all, anywhere. It is, in fact, heresy. I also believe that the Earth is ~1.5 billion years old, but my faith does not hinge on the story of creation in Genesis.
Comment by Elvis — 4/7/2005 @ 8:15 am
Fringe Psuedo Religions like Unitarians? Well, that’s right Christian of you.
http://www.samesexmarriage.ca/equality/rcem090405.htm
But granted, perhaps I should have said Churches that accept it.
The earth is at least 4.4 billion years old. But what’s 3 billion years between friends? Here’s a quote from today’s AP on that very subject.
What I have no problem with is blaming Christians for being taken in by George Bush. Even those Christians who did not vote for him haven’t done enough to talk to other Christians who did about the obvious contradictions to Christianity the man perpetuates. Where are the Christians pointing out that the man has hijacked their tolerant and loving religion for “crusades” led by a man who would dare to say “God speaks through me.”
I would like to get one thing perfectly clear. You are saying that every single person on this earth who doesn’t believe in Christ, as you do, is going to burn in hell?
I wish more people knew about this site so I could hear the freaks tell you all about the book of Revelations, the lake of fire, the Jews all going to hell for not accepting Christ, yada yada yada. Seems you have a big disagreement with the end timers, and I’d really like to hear it. Maybe that will be Robin’s next question. Come judgement day, I’d like to know why someone who’s done good deeds without good faith will be subject to eternal damnation, while a murdering, torturing, megalomaniac like GW Bush will be in Heaven.
Furthermore, you are saying that Gay people are sinners because they’re born Gay? Because God made them Gay? Or are you saying they have a choice? Did you choose to be heterosexual? Are you going to argue with years of established science that says gay people are born that way?
Comment by supak.com — 4/10/2005 @ 5:25 am
Several Scriptures are quoted in the comments I’ve just read, answering the question: Where does the Bible denounce Homosexuality? It does. The Bible also denounces many other sins, some of which I know myself to have committed and need forgivness for. If we (humans) were capable of not sinning (pick your poison) we would not need Christ to bear the punishment for our sins, and there would not need to be any Christians. I know that many “Christians” take a Holier-Than-Thou approach to sin, but the fundamental reason to be a Christian is because we all need saving, no one of us is without blame.
I also found present in the comments I read the opinion, which I share, that no child should be aborted on the basis of future sins. To kill a child as a fetus because it will be homosexual, is as nonsensical an idea as killing a child who will grow up to be a thief, or an adulterer, …
There is no good reason to kill another human — I am opposed to Abortion for the same reasons I oppose War.
What I find truely interesting is the number of other “questions” and opinions which were presented along with those answering the asked question, as non-Christians hastened to present thier “educated as a Christian” answers which stressed the the ignorance of the religious, in place of listening to actual Christians’ answers. Is the presumption is that the Christian mind is too brainwashed to be capable of answering correctly?
As to the issue of Gay Marriage: How ironic that in a day and age when even many Christians decide to live together instead of marry, Homosexuals would decide that they require the sanctity of marriage for thier unions. I believe for the death penalty on this matter you actually wish to address the Muslim religions who still practice this punishment for Homosexuality, rather than Christians who have accepted the idea that “Judgement belongs to the Lord.”
Let me put it this way:
People have the right to be homosexual. Everyone has the right to sin … the right to kill a fetus for no good reason — whatever that reason. But just because you have the right to do it, doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do.
Comment by Pantoufle — 4/10/2005 @ 9:08 am
There’s no established science that proves people are born gay. I believe that it is a choice, and yes, they choose to sin. I did not choose to be a heterosexual because this is the natural way. I could choose to have sex with another man, though I can’t imagine under what circumstance that might happen. As Pantoufle eloquently pointed out above, all people are sinners and need God’s forgiveness.
God is a merciful and mysterious God. I’m not going to speculate on what criteria He will damn souls. I do believe, though, that the Bible makes it clear that the path to Heaven is by following the teachings of Jesus. Chief among those teachings is the belief that He is the son of God and that by His death we are spared the punishment we deserve.
Yeah, I’m not a geologist so I guessed at the Earth’s age. You have to admit, though, she doesn’t look a day over 1.5b.
Comment by Elvis — 4/10/2005 @ 6:16 pm
As a Christian, today’s political climate puts me into a philosophical quagmire. I believe that history will look at our current acceptance of abortion much like we look at slavery and the holocaust today.
It does not make sense to me that the best solution to the problem of an unwanted pregnancy is to kill the baby. This is the greatest injustice in our country today. It is a solution imposed on innocent children by selfish adults.
While I have a strong opinion about abortion, I also feel that we need to do more for the underpriveleged in our society. We need to protect the environment. We need to end corporate corruption.
Homosexuality is a sin and those that practice it will need to answer to God. But the Bible tells me not to judge. I have plenty of sin in my life. It is only by Christ’s death on the cross and through God’s grace that I am not going to hell with them.
Comment by Ken — 5/10/2005 @ 12:10 pm
Curious: It seems to me that many Christians believe being gay is a choice. Why is this?
I’m a lesbian, and I can tell you that I didn’t choose to be attracted to women. I admit that I might choose to have sex with a woman. That would be a choice, but homosexuality isn’t determined by who you have sex with, it’s who you’re attracted to. There are lesbians who have had sex with men, and gay men who have had sex with women, but they’re all still gay. I don’t choose to be attracted to women. I don’t look a woman and say, “I’m going to be attracted to her, but not to that guy over there.” I just am.
Comment by Alec — 6/5/2005 @ 7:29 am
This site is self-advertised as “Seeking to understand the Christian right amidst a preponderance of wrong.” But in truth there is no desire on the part of the author of those words to seek understanding. Rather the he/she seeks to attack Christian beliefs and attempts to illustrate the ignorance of Christian thought. Who is the hypocrite?
Comment by CardLogic — 6/21/2005 @ 12:11 pm
I am Christian, but I don’t think that homosexuality is the worst thing ever. I think that relationships are meant to be between a man and a woman. But God, for a reason, gave us the freedom of choice. I also think that if Christians were more open-mided, like me, everyone including homosexuals would be happier. Everyone says that Christians care about everyone, but they don’t really care about people of other religions or homosexuals. We are all equal in Gods eyes. Homosexuals are people just like us, they have problems just like us, they believe in God just like us, and they are not perfect jsut like us or anyone else. If being Christian means excluding people just because they are believed to be any less than human, then I don’t want to be that kind of a person. I am a believer of Jesus Crist, and I am heterosexual, but I am very open-minded when it comes to things like this. I think its a good thing when homosexual people come out and admit it. I think that takes some serious guts, if I was homosexual I never could. I’m afraid to talk to some of my faith because I’m afraid of beeing attacked by them if my interpertation of the Bible is a little bit different. Homosexual people are very brave. I actuall respect that.
If you have a comment about my oppinionm, please email me at ALLA6461@peoplepc.com
Comment by Allana — 6/22/2005 @ 11:11 pm
Good people attract only to the opposite sex. Hunmans are supposed to only have sex to procreate and you cant procreate in a same sex marriage
Comment by Ashley C — 7/21/2005 @ 4:13 pm
Good people attract only to the opposite sex. Hunmans are supposed to only have sex to procreate and for a life long love situation. You cannot procreate in a same sex marriage
Comment by Ashley C — 7/21/2005 @ 4:13 pm
I think it said somewhere in the bible that Jesus would come back and “kick faggots asses” then they would smell of there own feces. but i cannot remember the exact passage. Maybe they should become stem cells again.
Comment by IloveBush — 8/13/2005 @ 11:04 pm
a interesting group, I was not a big fan of gay marriage thinking it may be a conspiracy for the
gay community to get tax breaks…but the funny thing about it is the word LOVE. to be god fearing but excited that you are privelaged more than another because of thier “sinfullness”
every decade we are challenged spiritually in the 60’s equal rights was the issue and now we are confronted with DNA , Cloning, gay marriage….it all seems very different than one and another but if LOVE true
…the most difficult thing about being a christian or human is to realize everyone alive wants the same things to be loved to have good food, ect I had a professor in college he was gay he had a partner of 30 years they didnt flaunt or talk about sexual things ever, sure in christian eyes they will never go to heaven or be seen as
a fellow christian they would be more a “lower grade” but the sad thing if he or his partner is put into the hospital the other couldnt visit the other because is not family, and would not recive life insurance ect, thier
love was maybe true, but the rest of the world cant wait to tell them how to live ect, i know many christians are saying “well what is next people marrying animals? that is almost the same! ” i guess the question is what would
jesus say?
…will homosexuals getting married mean that our lives will be corrupted
or ruined… Knowing that those sinning gays can get married will ruin my attending church this sunday?! I am not sure
I am just making a point to not only study your faith, but study yourself, what does LOVE mean to you? how can we all survive
and feel a sense of joy or happiness who has a right to recieve grace or love if we all do then we have more questions to ask?
I had a difficult time with the topic mainly because i had suspicious feelings towards gays like “what do they really want? is it only
to have thier and their partners relationship recognized so that they can get hospital visits, and other things that couples recieve or
is it because thier love is not seen by the bible that it is not “real” LOVE at all ?
Comment by tom — 8/29/2005 @ 11:39 am
Addressed to Comment by Jay — 3/26/2005 @ 5:06 pm - Please don’t call yourself an intellectual or a scholar until you learn how to spell first! Also, if you don’t believe the Bible is true, then why are you quoting it to support your own twisted theories? Take it as the words of God or don’t. Not just when it’s convenient for you. It seems like that was exactly what you were accusing Christian people of doing. Few of your own words hold any water because your logic is faulty, biased and inconsistent (again, something you were accusing the Christians of) LOOK IN THE MIRROR!
Comment by Dan — 10/27/2005 @ 8:50 am
I find it curious that so many people are willing to assume that just because one is attracted to someone of the same sex, that said person MUST act upon that attraction. Where is it written that human beings should base their actions on how they feel? Is not the definition of responsible behavior something along the lines of taking into account the possible consequences and the expectations of others in one’s society before acting? Is not virtue only virtuous when one’s virtue is tested and one passes that test without surrendering it?
As far as the ridiculously ill-thought question of who anybody is to force one set of values on another, here’s a news flash - THAT’S WHAT ANY CODE OF LAW IS! (duh) We, in American society, expect all people who are tempted to steal, deal drugs, assault, murder, rape, molest, embezzle, et cetera to repress those impulses, and if they do not, society charges agencies with enforcing the laws that grew out of a common moral code of the majority. The point is, everybody is forced to obey a moral code or to pay a price - a recompense. That price includes either legally sturctured punishment or the stress and inconvenience of evading capture.
When it comes to moral law, such as that found in the books Exodus-Deuteronomy in the Old Testament, a similar recompense is perscribed for moral crimes. In Leviticus, the crime for engaging in homosexual acts, as well as other sexual sins like adultery, is death. According to an analysis of the New Testament, Jesus came to pay that penalty with His own life, assuming the offender admits his/her wrongdoing, commits to a life free of moral crime, enlists the help of God in directing that life. Nowhere in the Bible do I find condemnation for being tempted to any sin, but only for dwelling on or acting on temptation.
This brings me to my main point. If one is born with a predisposition for sexual attraction to the same sex, and one grows to embrace the Christian faith, it is perfectly reasonable to ask and expect that person to discipline his or her mind in order to resist that temptation. It is also within the Christian tradition to support others in their efforts to resist temptation, although that concept gets somewhat muddled amidst the typical independent mindset of Americans. If I and other Christians are wrong in this, then it sends a message that sexual orientation is truly fixed, which in turn means that all sexual offenders are incapable of rehablilitation. What punishment do we then give to those who commit polygamy, incest, rape, and acts of bestiality, pedophilia,and necrophilia? Internment colonies? Castration? Imprisonment without the possibility of parole? Death?
What is confusing is that there are some churches that have rejected Christianity’s core document, the Holy Bible, as an kind of authority on personal conduct. I do not pretend to understand what those ministers and attendees are seeking through their practices, but I do know that it is not grounded in the ancient statements of faith recorded in the Tanak, the Gospels, the Epistles, and the Revelation.
To summarize, while temptation is not not necessarily a choice, what one does with a temptation is always a choice. What any given person chooses to believe is a reflection on what that person considers to be a wise choice.
Comment by Christopher — 10/28/2005 @ 8:54 am
Um, I’m not so sure that I’ve read anything in any of the myriad Buddhist texts that condemn homosexuality. Love to say a quote and (I’m sure) a vague interpretation of such.
Please try to refrain from including other religions in the Christian boys’ club. It’s an insult that we would be so close-minded.
Comment by Patrick — 11/6/2005 @ 11:36 pm
The Bible is a book written by men, with some parts given to men’s interpretation of what God said. In that sense, it’s a flawed document, given to reasonable (and multiple) interpretation. Since nothing in the Bible can be proven as fact, it’s mere speculation and is open to skepticism. It could very well be a work of fiction, or it could all be true. But one thing it is not is consistent. Women are treated as second-class citizens in the Bible; virgins are treated as property or soldiers’ reward in several stories.
And, yes, you could argue the verity of the Constitution, as well. We’re seeing current amendments to that document which was also once held sacred.
Lest I be called a Communist, many of those doctrines are flawed as well.
Absolutes are voids into which values and lives are obliterated.
Comment by Patrick — 11/6/2005 @ 11:47 pm
This is for Christopher, who wants to apparently enforce the death penalty as stated in Leviticus upon people who behave gayly. I wonder if you’re going to enforce all of Leviticus. Because if you do, I’m going to sell my daughter, own some slaves, and give a verdict of death to the NFL for touching the skin of a dead pig on Sunday.
But, lets go the more philosophical route, vs. the theological one. Our system of laws in the US is based on John Stewart Mill’s harm principle, in which you can pretty much do whatever you want as long as it doesn’t harm anyone. Our drug laws go beyond that threshold, and that’s why I think they should be repealed. Seat belt laws and other paternalistic laws would, on their face, seem to be outside the harm principle, but it can be shown that people who don’t wear seat bealts (or motorcycle helmets) actually cost the rest of us in health care premiums, and the extra burden they place on the health care industry when the result of their independence is being scraped up off the emergency room floor.
I dare you, Christopher, to show me how two people having gay sex “harms” me in anyway whatsover. Your bigotry is astounding.
Just look at this comment from you: “If I and other Christians are wrong in this, then it sends a message that sexual orientation is truly fixed, which in turn means that all sexual offenders are incapable of rehablilitation.”
Well, buddy, sexual orientation IS fixed. Scientists have been discovering evidence of this for years. Gay people do not choose to be gay. They fall in love with a member of their own gender, and it is presumptious and wrong of you to condemn them for it, much less to tell them they should not act on their emotions.
Furthermore, the logical fallacy of your leap from sexual orientation being fixed to sexual offenders (presumably you mean child molestors, rapists, etc) is astonishing and sickening. Gay people aren’t rapists and pedophiles any more than you are. Being gay has absolutely nothing to do with the illnesses that cause people to be sexual predators.
Dude, come on out of the dark ages. Open your eyes. You and your homophobic Republican friends are not only wrong, you’re dangerous. Because as soon as you start wishing relgious law on Americans, you’re as bad as the Taliban.
Comment by Scott — 1/20/2006 @ 4:23 pm
What is wrong with you people?! And I’m talking about you Christian extremist fundies! I will never for the life of me undrstand the way you think! Why do you hate so many people that are different? You hate Gays,you hate other people of different religions,you hate people of color,you hate women that can think for theirselves,you think it’s just fine to destroy the earth,the animals! How arogante and prideful to say your religion is the one and only true religion! You don’t go by what your Christ teaches! Do you really think that Christ is happy with you? NEWS CLIP! He’s NOT! You actually think that being Gay is a choice? Let’s see how it happened, a person woke up one day and said to themselves; HMMM,I think I’ll try being Gay today! NO! They are born that way!! Why would they choose to be in a life that they would be hated and feared?! They are like anyone else,they work,pay taxes,the have emotions,they love just like anyone else! They ARE human just like everyone else! And they, just like every one else has the right to marry as you do! How wouls like it if it was turned around? If you are a white straight Christian, you are not allowed to marry,adopted children,your religion is not reconized as a religion at all and they tell you that your religion isn’t the right one for you! You can be fired from your job!You are hated,feared and in some cases even be killed! Tell you that you have to be this way,you have to be that way,you have to live your life as they say you will! Your rights are taken away all because you are differnent! How would you feel? What would you do? You would fight for your rights! And it sickens me that these extremist fudies use Christ as a means to be hate filled bigots! You’re giving Christ a bad name! SHAME ON YOU!
Comment by Jeri — 3/8/2006 @ 6:30 am
Yep, it’s right there in Leviticus, and funnily enough these are the passages that a lot of right wing christians like to quote. And yet, strangely enough, these same people don’t seem overly enthused about following the other passages of Leviticus, even the parts that still have relevance in todays society. For all those who like to read Leviticus it quite clearly states which foods can and cannot be eaten, and in amongst such lists can be found:
Leviticus 3:17 : [It shall be] a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood. (A lot of modern foods contain animal fat)
Leviticus 11:7 and 8 : And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.
Leviticus 11:10-12 : But anything in the seas or the rivers that has not fins and scales, of the swarming creatures in the waters and of the living creatures that are in the waters, is detestable to you. You shall regard them as detestable; you shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall detest their carcasses. Everything in the waters that has not fins and scales is detestable to you.
Going by these commands I wonder how many Christians have ever managed to go their whole lives without eating shellfish, pork, bacon, sausages (doesn’t matter what kind of meat as sausages, like burgers, contain internal animal fat) or, indeed, Christmas Pudding, which is made with suet which is nothing more than pellets of beef fat coated with flour (and before anybody says, yes I know a vegetarian alternate to suet is available, it just wasn’t used in Christmas Pudding or other dishes until the outbreak of BSE).
So, to all those Christians who want to shout and moan about how homosexuality is a sin, maybe you should consider your own diet, and just how sinful you’ve been.
Comment by James Rose — 3/21/2006 @ 8:14 am
It’s amazing that I even spent any time at all reading these posts. All of you should go back and read your own posts……did I give you enough time? Good, now do you realize how self-centered most of you sound. Some of you quote scripture out of context, some of you are righting answers as if you have something to prove.
Let me ask some of you this question… what ever happened to living the life that God has called you to live and allow the work of the Spirit to lead? Is homosexuality wrong? Is sitting at your computer with rage and anger going through your blood wrong?
Paul wrote a lot of the verses that many of you qouted, and it was interesting that in the book of Acts when Paul was in Ephesus and the riot about Artimus takes place, a man who was a city offical sticks up for Paul. This man was probably an Artimus worshipper, yet he sticks up for Paul. Paul never once condemned Artimus worship (or worshippers) instead he became friends and taught about what Christ had done, and was still doing.
We all could learn a lesson or two from the Scriptures if we decided to study it for the purpose of God pointing out what work he needs to do in our own lives, rather than worrying about what he needs to do in everyone elses.
LIVE…LOVE…SERVE
1 John 4:8
Love wins
Mark
Comment by Mark — 3/31/2006 @ 12:13 pm